Why do you respect Joe the plumber and not Jose the lawnmower? Joe may dress more professionally and speak better English, but it doesn’t mean he is above Jose. People like Jose understand entrepreneurship and business, which is why he will surpass Joe the plumber when it comes to net worth.
- Jose has a harder work ethic than Joe. Instead of working 40 hours weeks like Joe, Jose tries to work at least 70 hours so that his kids can have a better education.
- Joe enjoys going out and having fun, which isn’t a bad thing, but Jose saves his money for his family and retirement.
- After a hard days work Joe likes to watch CNN and see where the presidential debate is. Jose on the other hand is working so that one-day he has enough money to buy CNN.
- When things go wrong in life Joe gets depressed and hides out in his house. Jose on the other hand is always grateful for what he has and keeps moving forward in life. Instead of whining like Joe, he is trying to solve his problems.
- And the best part about Jose is that he may make less per hour than Joe, but at the end of the day he is making more because he pays no taxes.
Who would you rather be? Joe the plumber or Jose the lawnmower man?
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Completely awesome Neil! Haha! That last bit about paying no taxes was great. Seriously though you make some really good points here about the strengths of Jose’s culture.
Sadly I haven’t figured out how to pay no taxes like Jose.
I’d call that just about the worst parable ever. Seriously.
Actually, as an immigrant myself I do try to pay taxes. Just because I don’t have a SS number and don’t share the same freedoms as Americans doesn’t mean I can’t contribute to this wonderful country that I happen to live in. Point 5 is not really true =/
I think in the long term Jose would be better if he pays taxes because he can benefit of a pensions when he retires.
I agree. It would be wise for him to pay taxes, but he doesn’t always do so.
Will there be a pension when Jose retires?
maybe who knows!?
All right..Jose is representing all the immigrants out there. Hey legal or illegal, Jose is a hard worker for sure.
Yep, he represents everyone. It doesn’t matter if you are Mexican, Indian,…. he represents all of us.
That’s what I’m talkin’ about! Go Jose the Lawnmower!
Yep! And on the weekends when he is free you will see him as a construction worker. Jose is definitely a hard worker.
Heck Yeah. Jose has the long term future in his mind, while Joe is thinking short term- that trip to the bar for $10 wings and beer.
10 dollars a day adds up. Jose tries to conserve his cash when possible.
Errr.. talk about flawed logic:
1. It sure would be nice if we only had to work 40. Joe’s work longer than anyone else in the industrialized world:
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/CAREER/trends/08/30/ilo.study/
2. Jose saves his money. Joe spends it and thereby reinvests in the economy. Because he spends money, the company he works for makes more money, because other Joes are spending too. Joe then gets a raise because his company can afford it. Jose is still mowing lawns for $7/hour at the age of 55…
3. I know of no Jose at the head of a major broadcasting network.
4. When things go wrong in Joe’s life he becomes a recluse and blames republicans. When things go wrong in Jose’s life he starts pushing dope and eventually gets deported.
5. Yep, nothing like Joe footing the bill for Jose’s kids to go to get medical treatment and an education. Most likely helping to pay for Jose’s 2 kids that are locked up as well.
Thanks for sharing! I know Joe’s job isn’t easy and he is helping the economy, but I think we can all learn from both of them. There are good and bad things about both of them, we just have to learn from the bad and follow the good things.
1. Joe isn’t the VP of a telecom company. Try getting a plumber on Sunday during the football games. Lots of Joe’s work closer to the 40.
2. Saving $ whether it be in a bank or in stocks is essentially re-investing in the economy as well. Banks loan your deposits out to others, and companies are public to unlock economic value in their companies. Even if Jose still mows lawns for $7/hour till 55, he can then retire at 55 and give himself a raise w/ his retirement account. 37 years at a conservative 7%; all he needs is about 11 – 12% of his income saved each month – which can be done.
3. Yet. No reason Jose can’t create a network and in 37 years it could grow into something huge while he is still mowning. He could certainly found something w/ minimal investment, build it with time and when it generates $ turn daily ops over to a business professional.
4. Take a major event like losing a job – Jose can then walk into any fast food place or open the newspaper and find an equivalent job nearly immediately. Turning to pushing would take a lot more time and effort.
5. Even if Jose did pay taxes, Joe’s would still be subsidizing the vast majority of services for Jose anyway. Paying taxes on $7 x 70 won’t equate to the amount necessary for those services. If married w/ 2 kids he would only be on the hook for about $1200 of federal taxes. State, local, and others would be much less. Also, any sales tax that goes to basic services is already being paid by Jose.
You make a good point about paying taxes. Even if it isn’t income tax, he still pays taxes when he buys goods from a store.
Not paying income tax is shameful. Taxes on goods and property taxes isn’t “a good point”. If Jose wants to enjoy the benefits of the country, he shouldn’t do so by taking advantage of law abiding citizens.
Hopefully there is a #6 where Jose gets the appropriate punishment for intentionally breaking the law.
I agree. If you want to enjoy the benefits of the country you should pay taxes. The question is, if you make tons of money should your tax bracket be higher?
My name is Jose, what do you think about this…
What about all the people in this country that take advantage of Jose? People exploiting his desire and willingness to work harder than white america and paying the $7 per hr you’re talking about.
Where would this country be without the Mexicans?
Probably paying $10 per orange or strawberry since no other ethnicity will work under those conditions or for those wages. And I can go on and on.
Some of the comments are retarded.
I don’t think everyone exploits Jose. There are some people out there that actually care about him and pay him well.
im’ with you jose.
i’d laugh at america if there were no mexicans.
people don’t see what REALLY goes on to put food on people’s tables
Not all Mexicans are illegals and not all of them have low paying jobs.
I think they are some of the hardest workers as well. My friend picks them up for day labor all the time and says that some of them are way better then any American. They get the job done fast better and with out injury. Powerhouses my friend calls them. (he also tips them on the side because day labor doesn’t pay them enough.) I also think part of the reason they get exploited is because they can’t speak full English therefor are unable to negotiate better working wages. That is just an assumption though.
Taxes are a necessary evil. We need them to supply many things such as medical care, education, roads, water, and the list goes on. People don’t pay taxes things don’t get fixed.
They are. I hate them, but I do understand why we have to pay them.
Wow I sense some racism in this comment. Anyway, the problem with this post is that it 100% utilizing stereotypes. Trying to sum up socioeconomic demographics into two imaginary people is inherently flawed from the get go.
I could be wrong, but I don’t think anyone here is a racist against Joe or Jose. People are just opinionated.
Jose here. I beg to differ.
I completely agree Sean. I sense it too.
My father, Jose as well, is a gardner. He worked his butt off. Payed taxes and now he owns a house and has no debt.
I worked with him as a kid and white America though I did not know how to speak English. You would be surprised what I hear people say. As a 11 year old kid, I was in shock about what I head and experienced. All this time I carried this knowledge, I could not share it with my family because I didn’t want them to feel what I felt. Some people are ignorant and have no shame.
Even till this day, when people that don’t know me hear my name, they start to treat me differently.
I now have a successful career, make a grip load of cash, have multiple businesses and pay a shit load of taxes.
All this hustle, I learned from my father and uncles. They were gardeners, but they had their own business and made their rules, had money in their pockets, and now have no debt.
See that is the thing I want people to get from all the Jose’s out there. Many of them own their own business, set their own rules, and aren’t in debt. Plus they instill good values on their kids.
It’s unfortunate that so many people do have stereotypes against the Hispanic community, particularly against Mexicans.
Now if Joe the Plumber took time out to learn to speak Spanish, he might just better himself and gain even more customers. I learned to speak Spanish while in college, and it has been beneficial to me ever since.
Neil, great post. I have thousands of “Jose” customers, many of whom are the most appreciative, understanding, and least whiney of those that I do business with. The funny thing about the whole taxation thing is that there are those that are here paying taxes and will never reap there benefits.
I do think that Joe the Plumber could learn a lot from Jose… if he chooses to listen.
It is the way the world is. In a few more years I think things will get better.
You dare talk to Neil about flawed logic and then you say BS like “When things go wrong in Jose’s life he starts pushing dope and eventually gets deported.” that makes absolutely no sense. The ones that turn to drugs are usually the young ones, so yes I do agree that his 2 kids might be locked up. But the adult immigrants usually have values.
They carry a certain trait that usually comes from culture.
I can swear there was a study conducted a few years back on the average take home pay for a homeless person who actively begs in high traffic areas… and – with no taxes – it was around $36K.. parlay that with a little bumvertising (bumvertising.com) , and you’re creeping towards some nice coin.
I find that hard to believe. I watched a documentary on homeless people and I think they said a few do well but most do not.
I think you’re thinking about fulltime pan-handlers. I used to work in Brentwood a few years back, and I remember seeing some well-off homeless people. One guy used to wander around with his shopping cart, but when he pulled out his wallet, he would have a thick wad of cash. I remember another guy was a “homeless” scammer. He made people believe that he was homeless, but in fact, he just dressed up as a bum and asked people for money.
This represents a very small portion of the homeless community I believe. Most homeless people live in bad conditions and have no money. And with the little money that they scrounge up, they use for food, alcohol, or drugs.
I knew a few homeless people. One of them begged for food and a place to stay. Another one begged for martial arts classes and the other begged money to buy food and book. All three are doing extremely well now.
My favorite homeless people are the ones that tell jokes. I’ll gladly give them a buck if they can make me laugh.
There are homeless people who make more than some 9 to 5 workers. I believe there was a news expose on how homeless people make tons of money off celebrities.
If I had to pick between the two it would be Joe the Plumber. Deport Jose!
I don’t like tax money paying for illegal immigrants anymore than you do, but the reality is Jose the Lawnmower works hard, and he takes jobs that many citizens wouldn’t even think about doing.
Plus, I don’t think this blog post is about whether or not Jose is an illegal.
It’s more about the symbolism of the two individuals. One works hard, barely makes enough to get by, raises a family, and still manages to save some money. The other one makes more money, but still complains that he doesn’t have enough.
Now I ask you…who is more noble?
“One works hard, barely makes enough to get by”… on the backs of the Joes, who pay more in taxes to subsidize everything that Jose takes advantage of… like health care, like education, like a million other things. Jose represents the unskilled labor portion of our social class system, who is forced to work hard because he is unskilled. Once Jose becomes skilled, then he becomes a Joe. Joe is just a 3rd generation Jose, whose ancestors built the foundation that we have.
Bob,
Being a plumber isn’t exactly rocket science. How much skill does a plumber need?
You know a lot of Joses are good at construction as well. They don’t only mow lawns.
They can do anything from mowing lawns to running a billion dollar company.
Huh? Racism? This post has nothing to do with racism. There are two classes defined here, one is Joe, who represents the skilled labor of the American economy (or at least the more skilled than Jose), and Jose, who represents the unskilled portion. If Jose gets an education, or job training, he becomes a Joe… it has nothing to do with race, and everything to do with skills.
@Mark Saving your money is not the equivalent of spending it, and is not an equal reinvestment back into the economy. It’s why we have an index on consumer spending.. and why when consumers don’t reinvest in the economy, people pull their money out of companies. You never hear something about consumers saving more money and the stock market shooting up. It works nearly the opposite of how you have written. Consumer spends money, business creates jobs, increases wages, and pays employees more, who turn around and invest AND spend their money.
Lastly, show me a Jose making 12% and I’ll sell you a piece of property… well. you know the rest.
I’d say plumbers have greater skill set that takes longer to master than does that of an SEO.
I wouldn’t know because I am not a plumber. I think that is a hard call to make unless you have been an SEO and a plumber.
I don’t think Jose will turn into Joe. His kids may, but I think his experiences in life will keep him different. I am not saying this is a good or a bad thing, but that I don’t think they will be the same.
Of course Jose won’t turn into Joe.. as you said, he saves his money, he doesn’t reinvest it in his own education. I’ll quote myself:
“Jose is still mowing lawns for $7/hour at the age of 55…”
and here:
“Joe is just a 3rd generation Jose, whose ancestors built the foundation that we have.”
There are exceptions to the rule, but there is no way to discuss the meat of this topic without generalizing.
Yes in general you are correct. I could be a bit biased because I know a lot of Jose’s that are successful.
By the same token, what you said here isn’t accurate:
“They can do anything from mowing lawns to running a billion dollar company.”
Jose by definition can’t run a billion dollar company, because “Jose” is defined as his class… not even Joe can… that’s another class altoghter… that’s the class William, who has eclipsed both Jose and Joe.
If Jose found himself at the head of a billion dollar company, he would no longer be classified as Jose.. he would be a William
You are right, at that point he isn’t a Jose anymore. He is wearing $10,000 suits and owns a private jet.
Bob Dole is a doosh…LOL
I bet this bob dole doesn’t even know anyone that runs a billion dollar company.
just reads about it…
I don’t think most people know of someone who runs a billion dollar company.
A third generation Jose would be my son. And I’m second generation and leaps and bounds above a Plumber.
A history of Joe in action:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_household_income
Don’t blame Joe for complaining he doesn’t have enough… Jose is doing the same thing, which is why he’s trying to better his situation.
Steve, you are correct. It really wasn’t about being an immigrant or not, instead I was using them to prove a point.
You prick.
Now, this is a tough one, I would have gone for Joe but Joe the lawnmower still has a lot up his sleeves.
Nice
Yea, it is hard to pick one. I prefer Jose, but Joe also has some great qualities.
6. The second best part is that Jose probably supports Barack Obama because he knows if he elects John McCain legal American’s will take his job because there won’t be any other ones left other than field jobs.
LOL! Hopefully Jose is a US citizen so he can vote.
To be honest, I rather be Ricardo the pool cleaner. That way while Joe the Plumber is out whining about taxes, I’m cuddled up with his wifey getting fed grapes that his heard earned plumbing dollars bought.
Who says Jose isn’t doing the same thing. Why do you think Jose doesn’t wear a shirt while cutting grass.
LOL! You’re crazy…
Wow, I think we should all leave the social commentary to more qualified experts. While the post makes a point, but hardly valid.
Jose is never going to make it and that’s the underlying harsh reality.
1) Working 70 hours, he does not have time to develop his mind as a pure laborer. His kids are working alongside with him, and never getting the proper education.
2) 70 hours x $4.25 an hour, Jose has no savings and no pension and no social security since you said he pays no taxes.
3) Jose will never be able to network with the good old boys. Owning a stake of a national brand is out of the question.
4) False, Jose will get depressed also and may lead to more destructive acts than Joe.
5) Terrible closing logic. No taxes, means no social security, no pension, and no retirement. Jose can’t vote, and can’t buy a house. Jose will be forever working as migrant workers taking up all the crap jobs that no one wants.
It is scary how Americans actually fear Joses benefiting from the US system when they are denied everything possible from the start making their life a living hell.
Think about it. How else could have so many people who literally don’t have common sense put Bush up for a 2nd term.
This comment is dead on.
I just looked in the police blotter for today and yesterday there were more than 3 DWI/DUI cases all on illegal immigrants. Jose can’t handle the pressure and hits the bottle to try and release some steam.
I disagree. Illegal immigrants run into problems but who says they can’t be successful in life. I am not saying it is a good or a bad thing that they are illegal immigrants, but that doesn’t determine if they will be successful.
Many Joses drink alot – both in quantity and frequency. Everyone needs to stop drinking and driving; not just the illegals.
I totally agree. I love drinking but you have to be a responsible drunk.
The biggest drunks I’ve ever meet have not been illegals, or you mean Mexicans.
I think the biggest irresponsible drunks are teenagers.
I know a Jose who actually made it. He started off by doing unskilled work and now he is pulling in 300k a year. Anything is possible!
Yep, I’m not far behind.
Glad to here. Best of luck!
1. That is 70 hours of prime mind development time. I am always thinking of ideas when I mow. Jose has 70 hours a week to put in a learn Chinese, learn English, calculus, etc. tape and practice. Noone can hear you practice your chinese over the roar of a lawn mower. He could also find 2 – 4 hours a day to implement any idea given 10 hours for eating & sleeping.
2. I certainly am not counting on social security. It might not exist by the time I am 65. Jose can certainly save 11-12% of his income and still retire w/ a raise by 55. I lived on much less than that while in college ($5/hour x 25 hours/week). Jose would get nearly 1200/month. plenty to pay 200 or so in rent, 500 in food and other, and saving 200.
3. Who knows. Maybe Jose mows for the CEO and one day over lunch the CEO overhears him talking Chinese to the gardener and the next day talking English to the Butler, and the next day describing a great idea to the Maid. The CEO being the smart guy he is, sees the talent in the young Jose, and the ball starts rolling. Afterall, a patent clerk would never be able to break into the scientific community either right?
4. Subjective – anyone can come up w/ an alternative scenario. Although, Neil has already established Jose as a man w/ strong work ethic and character. I was laid off from a $5/hour job once, and had another w/in a week on the other side of the state making twice as much.
5. He can still have retirement w/o a pension, or social security. 401K/IRA is different than pension. I was under the impression foreign nationals could buy property in the US (even though it doesn’t really have anything to do w/ retirement).
It is amazing where you can get to because of networking. If you do grunt work for a high powered individual (such as a CEO), it can go a long way.
Jose’s can’t be successful? How do you define success? Success means different things to different people.
I guess I’m too naive not to believe things are possible for anything with an idea, a little bit of ambition, and a strong worth ethic.
I define Jose as an immigrant. He doesn’t have to be Hispanic… just an immigrant.
Perhaps Jose won’t be the millionaire, but I think you’re wrong about Jose’s children. If anything, Jose has instilled values in his children, and many of them will be first generation college graduates, carrying on his legacy!
I have seen Jose’s teach their kids some smart things and watched them become successful.
I think the overall point is valid, in that we all need to just buckle down and bust it out rather than whine, complain, or feel like we’re entitled to anything.
I don’t think the Jose’s of the world, for the most, typically amount to much financially or business-wise, for the reasons already mentioned. They’re too busy running the rat race to ever get out of the maze. If they had the time, education, and mental capacity to devise a vision for a business, their work-ethic and willingness to just get it done would carry them far.
However that’s usually not going to happen and they’ll bust their hump their whole lives to scrape by.
Yes, not all of them are going to succeed. But if we can learn to bust our ass like Jose, we will be better off.
Yup.. that’s the point, if our skilled workers adopt Jose’s work-ethic, and really apply themselves full-force, there is no limit to what we can achieve. However, a lot of the middle class is just comfortable enough to where they aren’t motivated to really get out there and innovate. The rich (born rich, not self made) aren’t really motivated to do much because they’re already rich. The poor (Jose’s of the world) or those without a lot of resources have the biggest motivation to succeed, but for the most part lack the resources (finances, connections, opportunities, etc) to ever really reach their potential.
Again, none of this applies to everyone.. it’s truly not a matter of resources, but of resourcefulness. If the will is strong enough, there is a way to get it done and make it happen. Most don’t have the fortitude to stick to it though and drive it all the way home.
“If they had the time, education, and mental capacity to devise a vision for a business”
What the “F” I know some gardeners that have a high education and are brilliant in their country. Once they come to the States looking for the dream they get a rude awakening.
As far as mental capacity, you could not be more wrong. I went to school in Mexico and they have higher standards than the schools here.
The same thing happens with many of the people in my family. Even though they are highly educated in India, it doesn’t really do much for them in the states. Because of this they either have to go back to school or do whatever it takes to make a decent living.
Today’s crisis is hurting immigrants hard.
I never liked the US Immigration policy! Look how great Canada is managing immigrants.
I would respect Jose.
Problem with this post is that it was written from an American point of view.
The thing with Canada is that it borders the US. Both countries are well off and it isn’t like most US citizens want to move to Canada.
Complicated issue. Obviously, hard work and thrift are to be applauded, and there’s no question that immigrants to the US have historically achieved and succeeded to an extraordinary extent.
But as another commenter mentioned, the future belongs to knowledge workers (at at least, VERY highly skilled craftsmen) so the key issue is not the extent to which Jose succeeds. Instead, we need to look at his kids, and how they will take advantage of the opportunities America offers.
Exactly! His kids are likely to have a hard work ethic and be skilled. This will lead them to be successful.
if Jose isnt related to Charles Keating the convicted felon and bank fraudster, like joe the plumber is, then he really has no business in this election.
We need to focus on more substantial ways for fortune 500 CEOs to get another $700,000 personal tax cut while middle class americans making less than $250,000 can be taxed even MORE heavily by McCain when he steals the election with vote fraud machines.
I think middle class Americans make a lot less than 250k. I could be wrong, but that seems really high. I would even say that they make less than 120k.
I really hope we don’t see another election like in 2000. There was too many shady things going on in that election. Gore should’ve won.
Yea, we need change. I hate paying taxes, but I don’t like the economy going to shit.
Without the Jose’s of the world, the US economy would crumble.
I don’t know if the US would crumble, but they do a lot of jobs that many of us would not touch.
Maybe not the US, but big agricultural states like California and Washington would have difficulty getting product to market, prices would increase and all Americans could be hurt.
If product prices increase, that would mean companies would make more money. And when companies make more money, they’ll either increase salaries or create more jobs. Of course, this is the ideal scenario.
We’ve all seen how corrupt corporate America can be. =[
Corporate America would probably increase their profit margins and not pay more. Look at the oil companies.
US Economy wouldn’t crumble but I assure you a lot of people would be HUNGRY!! LOL that’s real talk too
I doubt it would crumble, but it would get hurt.
Hey Neil, Amount of middle class families would be very less in US. The major reason to crumble US economy is unwanted threat which people of US and all around the world feel.
I would of course prefer to become Jose the Lawnmower Man! Great stuff Neil.
Same here. I hate paying taxes…
You’re an ass.
I didn’t mean it in a bad way. I am sorry if I offended you. The reality is I hate paying taxes and try to do whatever to not pay them.
No worries Neil. I just got a little heated while reading all the comments. Hey by the way, great job on this post. It sure got a ton of comments.
Thanks! Comments are great, but at the end of the day I want to help people succeed.
The bottom line is I will always have respect for hard-working people who live life with integrity.
Whether it’s Joe or Jose, it really doesn’t matter to me. We need to commend these people who work so hard for so little money.
You are right. They both have really hard jobs and people need to respect them instead of looking down on them.
I knew the very second mccain uttered the words joe the plumber, i should have immediately registered the domain name.
it may have already been too late but i heard that the domainer who owned it was offered over 700,000$ for it.
wow.
this subject has really taken off and been such a galvanizing topic in the campaign.
joe the Plumber has become A meme.
I would rather be Bryan the Blissful and not care about trying to be someone else.
but if I had to choose between your 2 choices
I respect Jose more than Joe.
thanks and take care
bryan
It was already registered by a real plumber, not a domainer.
There was also a domainer that registered joetheplummer and created a make shift politic info site though.
I didn’t know who/what joe the plumber was until a friend emailed me a couple days after the debate about the plummer site since he knew I was into domaining and the like.
I hadn’t heard about the 700k – if I were the plumber I would have taken it in a heartbeat & spent 100k re-branding my company.
I wonder who would want to buy that domain name. I don’t know of any plubmers that can afford to pay 700k for a domain name…
Ha, maybe I miss typed.
There is a real joe the plumber that already had the domain – just happenstance – like the guy named john kerry (not the candidate) that had johnkerry.com back in 2004, or the guy who owns utube.com (a metal bending company).
If I were the plumber who owned that site, I would sell the domain in a heartbeat.
I suspect the offer would have come from a marketer, domainer, or some political committee that thought they could get more value out of it for the 2 months that it was getting free press.
Why sell it? I would try and make money off of it instead.
Are you kidding? 700k for that domain is a great offer.
Everybody pays taxes man… why would Jose be different? lol
He just puts some of his earnings under his mattress.
The crazy thing about this situation is that Jose still won’t be allowed to buy a house until hes a citizen, then the IRS would red flag him since he wasn’t “on the books” but has enough $$ to buy a house. We live in a great country, but for the hardest working of us all (Jose) its a double edged sword.
I applaud steve for “Whether it’s Joe or Jose, it really doesn’t matter to me. We need to commend these people who work so hard for so little money.”
That’s 100% true. No matter what your job, if your not a citizen, or very skilled, chances are you work double as hard as most people, and make less, even w/o paying taxes. Remember, paying taxes and being a citizen lets you spend $$ you don’t have i.e. credit cards, loans etc. where as not paying taxes limits you to what you have. Very hard.
Here’s a good question for the blog… Do you think hard workers, like Jose, should be entitled to purchase homes?
Good question. I don’t know if they should be allowed to buy home. I am not a political person and I probably don’t know what is the best for our economy.
I don’t really have a strong opinion on this, but I guess it would be ok as long as they pay property taxes like everyone else.
However, the way our lending guidelines/laws are set up, I think it would be difficult for an illegal immigrant to get a loan. Jose would need a provide a social security number, and a credit report would be pulled based on that SSN. Then an underwriter goes through the entire loan file to see if everything fits – checking the validity of all documents involved.
It is very difficult for them. Being an illegal immigrant makes it much harder to succeed in life.
Non citizens can buy a home. lol. Please get more informed before you start talking about things.
As long as you’re working towards becoming a citizen and have a SSN assigned to you and have established credit you can do it.
I did, I’m not a Citizen.
Bought a house at age 21 for $185,000 and even with this shitty economy, I more than double my investment, well maybe not after the interest.
Thanks for giving us more accurate information.
I like Jose’s style, way to go Jose
Just wanted to make a note that some illegal immigrants do pay for social security. According to the National Immigration Law Center, illegals contribute more than $6 billion into our social security pool.
The unfortunate thing is, most of the illegal immigrants that do contribute won’t see a single dime back. Many of them pay social security just to get a job.
Thanks for the heads up. I didn’t know they contributed that much into our social security pool.
Who could pound more beers? That’s what I want to know.
That’s a hard call…
Joe drinks a lot of Bud Lights and Jack Daniels.
Jose drinks a lot of Coronas and Tequila.
what part of the country are you from? LOL.
if you’ve ever been to a BBQ…
you’ll see white folks drinking corona’s & you’ll see mexican’s drinking bud light.
I see everyone drinking everything.
It is all personal preference at the end of the day.
There’s pro’s and con’s to illegal immigration. I would just like to see illegals with a work permit. Keeping track is what’s important. They are already here, so just get them registered!
I say good for Jose. He works hard to support his family while still striving to live better than his previous generation.
People come to America to live a better life. The life we live here is better because people who come here to live a better life serve us fries, and mow our lawns while we sip mai tais.
Without those people our lives would be much harder and less enjoyable.
My Dad is a “Jose” (but not a lawnmower man – that’s my brother in law ) and still works his booty off 16 hours a day during certain seasons.
The guy loves his life & doesn’t complain like I see a LOT of people in America too. Try going to the ranch in Mexico or go to a 3rd world company and try to find “opportunity” there.
Speaking of Mexicans Neil, my partner & I are creating a show & pitching it to some networks in LA in March.
About 2 Mexican childhood friends that are aspiring to open up a Coffee Shop. Calling it “Beaners” (some of you will get it…)
Let’s hope your show is as successful as Cheech and Chong.
If it ever goes live, let me know. I would love to see it.
Well, as we all know now Joe the plumber is better known as “Joe the watchdog”. He said he is launching a government watchdog group to keep President-elect Barack Obama and other politicians accountable. Read more
For Joe the Plumber, being on “air” with Obama for those 15 seconds was the best thing that could’ve happened to him. Now, he has all kinds of opportunities opening up for him.
It’s just sad that this guy wasn’t even a real plumber and he wasn’t even registered to vote.
Keep in mind that even watchdog organizations can be corrupt or biased. It’s really hard to trust anybody these days. It’s unfortunate that so many people in important positions are so motivated by money and greed.
One thing that is certain, regardless of which country you’re in – the sterotyping is exactly the same. Having said that, the elements of truth in the making of a stereotype is undeniable, otherwise there wouldn’t be any such conclusions in the first place.
If it wouldn’t be for the Joe’s, Jose would be hard-pressed to find work that the like of Joe’s would not want to do. And if it wouldn’t be for the Jose’s, the Joe’s would not have the luxury not do such labour intensive work for so little money.
Would the economy that Joe lives and works in be able to thrive without the like of Jose doing the dirty work?
They need each other much more then either would like to admit.
Success, on the other hand, rewards the hard working regardless of whether you’re the Joe’s or Jose’s of the world. Thankfully, Success has no such prejudice.
You are right, both Joe and Jose need each other. If it wasn’t for them our world would be a worse place.
The original article is racist because it says Jose pays no taxes. This kind of insensitivity surprises me from Mr. Patel, naturally I’m disappointed in him.
The truth is that hispanics are hard workers who do not squander it on Starbucks, for the most part. Why not turn that critical eye to our own lives and stop looking for others to criticize. Homeless people have no place in this discussion. In the example, both were workers.
Tolerance is much more productive than bigotry.
Mary, I am sorry you feel that way.
To some extent Jose doesn’t pay taxes, but in other ways he pays taxes. Now I don’t know all of the areas that Jose contributes in (taxes), but in many cases he doesn’t pay income tax.
The difference is that Joe is trying to make a long term investment for his children. I guarantee that if Jose was able to save enough, he would sooner rather own his own lawnmowing company than mowing for one himself.
I would rather be Joe. Because I would then have more time with my children at their T-Ball game as opposed to working 16 hours days (like was said above). Getting home after my kids would go to sleep would break my heart and there’s, and possibly lead them to find a father figure in someone else (maybe better, but probably a lot worse).
I have seen a lot of Jose’s owning their own mowing business. And even the ones that don’t own their own business, find ways to make time for their kids.
If Jose worked hard and ended up owning his own small business, then they are a Joe. I believe you are stereotyping all Jose’s with being day-to-day workers.
I personally don’t consider all the Joe’s business owners. They can own a business, but they can also work for someone else.
Also, he doesn’t pay taxes on work. Those taxes go directly to pay for public education, which he sends his three children too. Instead, everyone else is left to pick up the tab because he is involved with a shading practice.
This blog post is offering poor advice, from an economic and ethical standpoint.
As Steve mentioned in the comments above, the Jose’s are paying some taxes. They contributed 6 billion to the social security pool.
If you are working as a day laborer, then you do not pay any social security tax. If you’re working as a contractor, then you would pay social security tax.
Basically, the difference between the Joe the Plumber’s and the Jose’s is how do you spend your time. Do you invest in capital and special in something, or do you become a non-specialized worker living only day to day.
The question was asked, “Which is more Noble?” I would answer it’s the one who spends his/her time looking ahead and managing time and work wisely. For me, I think the answer is Joe. But this is normative anyways.
Thanks for sharing! I know Joe’s job isn’t easy and he is helping the economy, but I think we can all learn from both of them. There are good and bad things about both of them, we just have to learn from the bad and follow the good things.
Exactly, as long as you take it as a learning experience, you will come ahead.
NEIL YOU’RE A FREAKIN GENIUS DUDE!
jermaine has said great things about you dude.
i still gotta interview you for my podcast on some SEO shiz…
Thanks! Hit me up whenever you want to do the interview.
There’s pro’s and con’s to illegal immigration. I would just like to see illegals with a work permit. Keeping track is what’s important. They are already here, so just get them registered!
That is a good idea, but I don’t think it will happen. Politics always get in the way…
Ok, so I am working hard and smart and my taxes…well. Ok I’ll do them.
If you get away from paying taxes feel free to let me know. I don’t mind saving a few bucks here and there.
First of all why did everyone assume that Jose was undocumented?
The fact that Jose is a lawnmower man does not necessarily mean that he is undocumented although the chances are higher.
Second, why do you assume that undocumented immigrants do not pay income taxes?
Undocumented immigrants can get a ITIN or individual tax identification number which allows them to pay income taxes (but does not allow them to access many of the benefits of it).
To all of you who think that Jose does not pay income taxes, please stop watching FOX news.
It looks like I made a few mistakes. Thanks for pointing them out.
I don’t doubt that some pay taxes, but why would they pay taxes if they dont have access to the benefits.
I mean documented people go well out of their way to try and not pay taxes, or a little as possible. Perhaps they don’t appreciate the benefits as much.
Many pay taxes just in case there is an immigration reform, it will help them to prove that they have been living in the United States and also shows their commitment to respect and follow the laws of the United States.
Thanks for chiming in. My guess would have been that maybe the taxes are taken out of their paychecks for the ones that get paychecks instead of cash.
Here here forget Joe the Plumber, he got too much attention for doing what ever he does. Why/How did Joe the Plumber get to be so famous.
Because of the political election. I think McCain mentioned him once during a speech or something like that.
Networking at work, right. Someone famous mentions someone not famous and boom they are getting attention too.
Plus it was on TV. Anything on TV that relates to a Presidential candidate will get tons of hype.
I have come late into this discussion, and Joe the plumber has already hit the media by reporting on an online web site from Gaza. He has worked smart! He has exploited the few minutes of fame to launch a perhaps different career.
On balance, both approach their lives as they fit. I would not say that one is better than the other. Each plays his card the way they are dealt. Each is different from the other.
While my heart says the Jose is the choice to make, the head says that Joe is perhaps the better role model!
Joe mad a smart move. If I was in his position I would have done the same thing. Might as well make your two minutes of fame last a lifetime.
I know Joe’s job isn’t easy and he is helping the economy… Bt i thnk there are sme good and bad things about both of them. We just have to learn from the bad and adopt the good things.
Exactly. If we adopt the good things, we will be better off.
I don’t know……………….
Joe isn’t the one who’s going to get Deported, or have to pay years worth of back-taxes.
Still the story makes sense, hard worker who doesn’t give up vs. average joe.
â–ˆ Kris Tian â–ˆ
None-the-less there is something you can learn from both Joe and Jose.
I just stumbled upon this story, it’s a great one! So many people are racist against these immigrant workers but their work ethic and enthusiasm puts most of us to shame!
Sadly, they do put most of us to shame, and rather than admiring their hard work, so many people choose to insult and attack them when they are coming here to create their own opportunity. Isn’t that what the United States is supposed to be about?
Yep, I personally don’t work as hard as most immigrants.
Times will change and people will start accepting them.
I am not sure.. I got your point Neil.. So what should one be like? Jose? Why? I feel Joe is better off in most cases except the whining part may be..
A bit of both. Take a page out of both of their books.
I would lean more on Jose. This sounds like a hardworking guy who doesn’t complain. This makes up a huge debate on what’s the truth in life! You gotta keep moving on regardless of the things not going your way. I am a fan of this post. Total excellent post Neil.
Why not learn from both.
Hey, I give Jose the lawnmower a lot of credit. He is living in a country that is still foreign, and most likely he left behind many relatives and loved ones in his old country. You are absolutely right, Jose does have a harder work ethic. Many immigrants come to the states prepared to work their buts off. I also think that the children of immigrants appreciate things more than other children. Oh, and I loled at the taxes bit …
till then,
Jean
Right, he doesn’t have it easy at all. Life is a lot more challenging. He ends up working double what you do for half the pay.
You make some good points but this is a generalization that some may find offensive. But since I am not politically correct,,,I totally agree.
I generalized it on purpose in efforts to no offend anyone.
Jose, but mainly because I do what I love and that is what matters when it comes to 70 hour work weeks. If you do what you love you never work a day in your life.
That is how the saying goes, but just take a look to see how many people actually follow through with that type of mindset.
Either of the two, you will learn something based from their actions. The in-capabilities of other is the advantage of another.
it is the comon thing in america, the country becomes richer from every new coulture that comes in, but americans them selfs(not all of them) are afraid of it, look at arisona for example
What do you mean by Arizona as the example? Are you referring to the new immigration law?
Very true, Neil.
There are many things that Joe takes for granted, that Jose appreciates – since he can contrast it with his own experience. Whenever I return after visiting home, I have newly born gratitude for many things that gradually become habitual and common.
In an immigrant, both natural forces are present: the fear that his family would live through what he’d experienced, and the desire to give them the best future.
Thanks for writing this up!
No problem Amir. It’s simply important to be aware of what’s going on so you can take the necessary action.